I brought it up at the meeting yesterday, and the idea got shot down. Using 1970 and up Lincolns and T-Birds will make more 2nd and 3rd round cars available to every team.

I know Johnny Millette spoke about how heavy and dangerous that they may be to teams driving against them. I respect his opinion, but I have to disagree.

The danger that Johnny was talking about was prevolent at Santa Fe back when the track was dry. Plus, that old track was at least twice the size of what we are racing on right now.

The biggest concern that was raised was if a Lincoln Continental was raced against a team that happened to bring out "one of those small Chevy's". A competitive team shouldnt be showing up with "those small Chevy's" to race in the 2nd or 3rd round. And if they did, a Ford, Merc, or Chrysler wagon will inflict the same damage to that type of car on this type of track.

The issue got voted on, and only three teams raised there hands in support. After the meeting, guys from a few of the other teams that didn't vote for it approached us and said that they were kind of changing their minds about it.

If you realize that Linclons and T-Birds can open up more possibilities for teams that are having trouble finding cars, then vote yes in this poll and talk to your team owner and work with the other teams to try and get this decision reversed.

Thanks

ok, having the rule say "no Lincolns", if that is the way it is written, is like saying no Fords, when really referring to the T-birds.

What model of Lincoln is this about?
Continental Town Car?
Continental Mark II, Mark IV, Mark V?
Versailles? (probably not talking about this Granada clone)

-The 70s Town Cars do seem like a freight train when they hit something in a regular demo. I can only imagine how evil the hit would be in team style. Would be great to see from a fan standpoint, but maybe would be too strong and dangerous to whomever gets hit by one.

-As for the Mark IV and Mark V, there was the Mark. V on Havoc mid season in '07 which won a race but didn't look any stronger than a typical big Ford. From my enduro days, they weren't known as a formidable car for that either. In regular demos, a typical 70s car. Maybe the earlier Mark III is a formidable car... never seen one run.

-As for the 70s T-birds, again, I don't think they are stronger than any other pre-metric car. The strongest T-birds were made from '58-'66, which obviously does not contain the '70 and up timeframe mentioned. Seen a few of these run at 66 in the team demo, so not sure why the sudden thoughts to outlaw.

Here's some weight comparisons I dug up, along with other cars... (factory shipping weights)
'71 Lincoln Town Car 4-door- 5072 lbs.
'71 Lincoln Mark III- 5003 lbs.
'75 Lincoln Town Car 4-door- 5229 lbs.
'75 Lincoln Mark IV 5145 lbs.
'79 Lincoln Town Car 4-door- 4649 lbs.
'79 Lincoln Mark V- 4589 lbs.
'70 Ford T-bird- 4354-4630 lbs.
'74 Ford T-bird- 4825 lbs.
'78 Ford T-bird- 3907-4200 lbs.

************************
common car weights...

'77 Ford Country Squire- 4674 lbs.
'77 Ford LTD 4-door- 4240 lbs.
'76 Mercury Colony Park- 4906 lbs.
'76 Mercury Grand Marquis 4-door- 4723 lbs.
'72 Chrysler Newport- 4202 lbs.
'75 Chrysler Town & Country- 5115 lbs.
'61 Chrysler New Yorker 4-door- 4100 lbs.
'75 Chevy Caprice wagon- 5036 lbs.

'86 Chevy Caprice wagon- 3977 lbs.
'80 Cadillac Fleetwood 4-door- 4092 lbs.
'84 Buick Electra wagon- 4160 lbs.
'78 Olds Delta 88 4-door- 3690 lbs.
'86 Ford Country Squire- 3834 lbs.
'82 Dodge Diplomat- 3445 lbs.

Again, it's too small of a track for that to be a "deadly" difference. And, I'm curious to see the weight comparison of the cars after they are completely stripped out and rebuilt.

I do want to thank you for posring the weights of those cars, JH. How much do late 60's, early/mid 70's Cadilac's weigh (all makes)? What about a 71/72 Colony Park wagon?

JohnnyRyan Wrote:Again, it's too small of a track for that to be a "deadly" difference. And, I'm curious to see the weight comparison of the cars after they are completely stripped out and rebuilt.

I do want to thank you for posring the weights of those cars, JH. How much do late 60's, early/mid 70's Cadilac's weigh (all makes)? What about a 71/72 Colony Park wagon?

track is smaller, yes, but Santa Fe was probably just as muddy on demo nights (atleast since I started watching), with the motorcycle jumps, flagstand, and "swamp" in the middle to slow down the cross-infield assaults. But from your driver's vantage point, if you think it's slower at 66, then I'm sure it is.

as for stripped weights, the 60s/70s 'luxo' barges (Caddy, Lincoln, Olds 98, Buick Electra, Chrysler) probably would lose the most weight from all the extra sound-deadening, insulation, extra trim, power stuff, etc.. One of those probably isn't too far off a Chevy, Ford or Dodge when all are stripped.

for the 80s cars, stripped weight will return closer to factory weight with the addition of a big block and door reinforcements.

'67 Cadillac Fleetwood- 4735 lbs.
'70 Cadillac Sedan DeVille- 4700 lbs.
'70 Cadillac Fleetwood- 4830 lbs.
'73 Cadillac Coupe DeVille- 4925 lbs.
'73 Cadillac Sedan DeVille- 4985 lbs.
'73 Cadillac Fleetwood- 5102 lbs.
'75 Cadillac Sedan DeVille- 5146 lbs.
'75 Cadillac Eldorado- 5108 lbs.
'69 Ford Country Squire- 4227 lbs.
'72 Mercury Colony Park- 4579 lbs.

and just for kicks...
'72 AMC Ambassador wagon- 3857 lbs.
'75 Buick Riviera- 4539 lbs.
'73 Buick Riviera- 4400 lbs.
'74 Pontiac Grand Prix- 4100 lbs.
'72 Dodge Polara 4-door- 3845-3890 lbs.
'73 Dodge Monaco 4-door- 4020-4060 lbs.
'73 Dodge Monaco wagon- 4470-4515 lbs.

i no if the concern is for the car bodys going to waste like johnny said. i think use them in that anything goes outlaw free for all race. and keep the motors after the car is trashed some of the free for all demo guys like putting differnt motors in the shells anyway or even if you junk the bodys you would get a few houndred back in scrap i think like dave and johnny said they are pushing the limits some one will get killed and the person will have to live with that for the rest of there lives some teams have a larger budget and can have there line up all 70 lincons when some one gets hurt bad or when there is a death people will be saying why did the track let this happin then comes the law suites, i no when i got in to that wreck at santa fe and the guy got killed it is a feeling you have to live with the rest of your live. what happins if you get a new theam like the van allen in 06 that don`t have all the cars and bring metric cars into the finals like they did with road rage and almost got killed

Well, those old Caddy's are still legal and they weigh in pretty close to the Lincolns that we're talking about here.

The VanAllens would get hurt racing metric cars against LTD 2 doors. The track is too small for the extra weight to be a difference,

How about limiting Lincolns to 2 per heat, per team?

Think outside the box, people!

johnny did you see the pitchers jason brought to the meeting the van allen car were his head hit the hood the j y d car were the center post was riped from the roof yea the track is smaller then fe`s but most teams are building theam big blocks up so much the hits are still hard and theam teams filling the gas tank theam big cars will feel like your getting hit by a train what do you think the out come will be when some one gets hit in the drivers door witch is not supost to happin but you no it does with one of them tanks

yea i no it was metric but i was trying to say you can get up the speed hell ask brickman if you can`t get up seed to due damage, art almost but him in the hospital the stering wheel was out the windsheild i am trying to say putting a 6000 pound car up to a 4000 even 4500 add maybe 300 or more pounds to that lincoln by filling that gas tank now you got almost a 6500lb car the show has been a great show all these years with out them why ruin it, john millete has been around it along time and he had a good point people have familys wife kids that don`t want to see there dad getting carted of in a ambulance i am just saying the show is still going strong it sells out every night, what is it you did not get hit hard enugh

you are probly right but i think if all the teams can`t find them and have to keep trying to match cars for cars with the other team they are at a big disadvantage it would be like having art or pete ryan in a mint lincoln and have a team with 2 72 ltd and 2 merc. they would take 2 0r 3 cars out by there self heck joe snow was cleaning house on the other cars on that masters of dis. night i rember johnny klimek at santa fe racing a mid 70 `s lincoln in fig 8 was kicked back with the arm rest down plowing thru. the other cars and not even bending the lincoln

i no you have a strong line up this year but try and spin things around what if you were on a new team like say team 2 you win your match and the way the next round goes you get a easy team and now you are in the championship race say against the orange crush and you don`t have the lincolns but say 2/ 72 chryslers and 2 /70`s ltd , are you still going to feel safe when you have them with them big boats going 50 at you and ready to hit you head on